Question about how we wanna play this re: Marriage, elf sex

[crantz]

Theo: at least you didn't lead me on to the point we got married, Fingon
Fingon: Yeah really
Fingon: How ARE we working elf marriages here?
Fingon: I mean like...*looks at John*
Fingon: Cause I sort of feel bad because technically I DID marry Theo

The discussion then veered to precedent via Celegorm and Ecthelion very much not being married. How do we wanna work with canon/what we've done?

ALSO, the userinfo does say that we prefer no rape plots, but it reminds me of how Tolkien said that rape=death for elfs, do we wanna keep that in?

Comments

[unsuitenedt]

Just saying, if you're going by Laws & Customs, it says "...it was at all times lawful for any of the Eldar, both being unwed, to marry [by bodily union] of free consent one to another without ceremony or witness save blessings exchanged and the naming of the Name..."

So, I read that as you could have sex without being married so long as you didn't do the marriage blessings and naming of Eru. ;) ;)

[silver_trails]

And that was meant for Elves, I think.

[unsuitenedt]

True, the Eldar. Technically it does not even apply to the Avarin elves! :)

[silver_trails]

So unless Theo has turned into an Elf while having sex, they can't be married, can they?

[crantz]

Oh yeah, Theo's marriage status is safe on account of being a human.

[silver_trails]

So if the Elves don't say their vows and call upon Eru as witness, they are not married.

[snacky]

Yeah, I agree with this.

I think it might work also that if we play it like, culturally, the elves like ceremonies for their marriage as Mochi said.

As for rape, if that is played out, I have to agree with Jess and Mochi - I'd prefer not to have it go as rape=death.

[dunlending]

I think that for the marriages, it would make sense at this juncture to have it be kind of a process, if that makes sense. Since it's my understanding that in canon, intercourse = marriage, more or less (unless it is forced, as you mentioned, in which case you gon' die), it could work to add in a ceremonial element to seal the deal. This would keep someone from doing something stupid and getting stuck with a very permanent reminder.

Though, on the subject of rape, I think it would be more realistic to treat it as a non-death situation. Elves are very sensitive and can lose the will to live, but I think it'd do them more justice if we assumed most of them would have the gumption to survive even an assault like that.

[unsuitenedt]

Re: rape=death... Personally I feel this cheapens the victim. The vilest crime, yes, but let's not demean the victim by saying it is insurmountable. My own opinion, unrelated to any Tolkien text.

[dunlending]

I agree with you in this 100%. I think the Elves were made of pretty stern stuff, to experience some of the horrors they did (Helcaraxe anyone?) and still survive. It's a different kind of trauma, of course, but as you said, shouldn't be something they couldn't overcome.

[silver_trails]

Elves could leave their bodies if raped. It was an act of will, I think.

Celebrían might have been raped by the Orcs and survived.

[sars_npcs]

Okay, missed the naming of the name part :D!